Comments for The Myth of Vanity Sizing

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by KAT

KAT — Mon, 29 Oct 2012 00:56:40 +0000

Thanks for your response. And for the theories you presented and for the additional links.

And I agree with the sentiment you expressed on your About page. That if we could put aside the idea that clothes are “vanity sized,” maybe the industry would be better able to determine the real causes of changing clothing sizes and sizing inconsistencies and be able to fix them.

(And I look forward to reading your satire whenever you get around to it.)

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by Kathleen

Kathleen — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 19:14:09 +0000

Hi Kat I did hear about the bra lady. Bras aren't something I know much about -I suppose that is relative. I've written some about bra fit (pt.1 and pt.2) and the entropy of bra fit owing to push manufacturing. Due to practices of firms who are doing all their product development offshore (see the first link), it would not surprise me if we were seeing the same type of sizing pressures bought to bear based on retailer's insistence of sizing consistency across brands [that aren't preeminent enough to be able to dictate their own standards]. Iow, big box stores are increasingly dictating consistency among brands for sizes hanging on the same rack to reduce consumer confusion and frustration. Again, I seriously doubt any movement with respect to sizing has anything to do with flattering the consumer and more to do with following any mandates a chain store has the influence to exert. At the same time, another thing that can't be minimized is individualism (or perhaps better described as "delusion") among independent designers cum manufacturers themselves. As I've said before, I saw a video clip of a designer in Chicago who described herself as a size 6 and she couldn't have weighed under 180lbs. She was completely sincere! You can have a designer who copies a bra she likes. Maybe she's worn it awhile (stretched it out) and will want the copy to match it and she will ascribe the same size to it as what appears on the band of the original. My point is, there is no cabal; disparity in sizing has its roots in human frailty and fallibility which is why I persist in describing sizing as a social construct; not a mathematical one. I remain passionate about the topic but it does get old being the only person in the industry who will speak publicly about it. I also gets tiring to get the same old re-hash arguments about how wrong I am from people who feel perfectly qualified to tell me how wrong I am but haven't even bothered to read my counterarguments. We're talking about a population that increasingly expects "respect" [read: expecting cogent discourse in response] for their opinions regardless of how half baked they are. Lastly, I haven't kept up with this site as much, being pulled to continue posting on my main site (Fashion-Incubator.com). This site was initially intended to be a convenient place to aggregate all the vanity sizing posts instead of clogging my other site with it. Once I figure out how to do it, I will post the entries from there, over here. I mean, I know how to do it but I have to code it with canonical links to neither site is downgraded as a splog. I've been meaning to do a satire of most vanity sizing posts on the web. Such as, why do nearly all of them feature a photo of Marilyn Monroe and close with talking about how attractive everyone is, "just as they are"? It'd be like talking about tire sizes, putting up a photo of a Ferrari and telling everyone how great their beaters are. What does one have to do with the other?

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by KAT

KAT — Thu, 25 Oct 2012 18:28:51 +0000

Hi Kathleen.

Thanks for your articles. I found them quite informative and enlightening.

If you haven’t already heard about it, I thought I’d let you know about the latest “vanity sizing” controversy.

A prominent bra boutique owner has publicly made the claim that bras have become vanity sized over the past decade. And she’s quite adamant about it (but doesn’t provide any evidence to support her claim).

You can read what she has to say here (includes links to responses from others):

http://www.thelingerieaddict.com/2012/10/linda-the-bra-lady-on-bra-sizes-bra-fitting-and-vanity-sizing.html

I see that your blog posts stopped the middle of last year, so I wasn’t sure if you’re still as passionate about this issue and/or would be interested in responding to her publicly, but I just thought I’d pass the link along.

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by Kathleen

Kathleen — Wed, 24 Oct 2012 17:01:07 +0000

You are correct AGA. I am the last person to deny sizes have changed. I do deny that we do it to spare people’s feelings.

Tell your husband that I also majored in economics.

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by AGA

AGA — Mon, 15 Oct 2012 18:37:32 +0000

I think the key problem is most people don’t seem to get is you are not disputing that sizes have changed, but you are disputing that they are changing in order to make people feel skinnier. Personally, having worked in the fashion industry for manufacturers (not in design), everything you say makes perfect sense to me. P.S My husband is an econ grad and loves your blog.

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by Curtis B

Curtis B — Wed, 26 Sep 2012 16:30:04 +0000

I heard about this topic on the radio and decided to do some research. The author makes some interesting points about how sizes are set. I would argue that sizes do not ever need to be changed, just add new sizes. The majority of people would probably consider a size as a hard measurement like an inch or a centimeter. I understand that the author is making the argument that sizes must change to fit the evolving human. People are getting taller with better nutrition. People are getting heavier with less excercise and high caloric intake. People have been told for years that this size inflation is due to marketing ploys and we love to talk about conspiracy. I can not help but feel that if the industry wanted to, they could have very well kept sizes static. It is a choice to tailor clothing “to the norm” and increase averages over time. I have also noticed waist size problems. Some cheep brands of jeans have several inches difference between same waist sizes. Different brands of jeans like Lee or Levis also have quite a difference in the same waist size. (Over 2 inches). I consider this sloppy because most of us males hate shopping and just want to pull products of the shelf without having to return them. I force myself to try clothes on now before buying, because I have had so many problems with inch waist measurements.

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by Gem

Gem — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 20:47:49 +0000

I was glad to find this article though it’s old. It matters not what you call it, and I’m sure the motivation for changing sizes around is not necessarily about vanity.

But the phenomenon is real. I have size 0 skirts in my closet with waists that measure 24″. It doesn’t mater what I pay for them today, no one makes any thing that fits. I can’t find any thing that small any more, even in size 00. I have polo shirts I bought last year with 3 buttons and a neck line that laid nice. This year that exact same vendor added a 4th button down, lengthened the garment, widened the shoulders and the collar gaps open. Did I change size? no. Did they change how they designed it? Yes.

What designers SHOULD get that they DON’T GET is that small figures can’t always follow fashion. We don’t need as much design ease. We don’t need as much wear ease. And people who are thin are not always tall. We are not always short wasted or short legged. Our arms don’t drag the ground. Very often we are well proportioned just TINY.

I am 4′ 8″ and weigh 80 pounds. I am not a freak of nature. I used to be able to buy all kinds of suits and professional attire. Not any more. No one makes anything. Don’t tell me the industry hasn’t changed how they size garments. Doesn’t matter why or what you call it.

Comment on About by Sannie

Sannie — Wed, 08 Aug 2012 03:38:55 +0000

I just wanted to say, thank you. I’ve been reading through the articles you’ve posted, and find them to be informative and honest, and above all, really helpful. I’m a dressmaker with hopes of opening my own boutique, and one of the questions that comes to my inbox most often is if any of my pre-made or half-finished pieces are fitted to “vanity-sizing” or not. Despite designing the clothes and often having to draft the patterns from scratch, I’ve been having a rather difficult time trying to give a good answer since I myself wasn’t sure (I fit clothes to their measurements, but people get rather huffy if they can’t translate that as a mass-clothing size). Having some insight now will go a long way in helping with future clients. :3 So, again, thank you for all the information on your blog.

Have a lovely week!

Comment on Apparently, anyone who wears clothes is a sizing expert by Mia

Mia — Sat, 21 Jul 2012 17:26:14 +0000

Hmmm, she is only stating what the industry standard is to sizing. Sizing is the result of a norm referenced group (this is how many standardized tests are scored, such as the SAT). Groups of people are gathered every few years and their measurements are recorded, like test scores. Then, these results are grouped according to the mean, the average. Measurements, like test scores, are then placed according to the comparison to the mean, like average waist measurement and hip measurement.
This is all very dry math, specifically statistics. Because we in the US are getting larger, this results in the standardized sizings changing to reflect this new norm. It’s a bell curve. Google it. This standardization applies to many items. Take shoes for instance, a shoe store will carry the most pairs of shoes that fit a majority of its customers. The store will often carry only one pair in the extreme sizes, meaning the smallest and the largest size, because fewer people will fit those shoes.
It really makes more sense if you looked at a graph.

Comment on One Size Fits Nobody: New York Times by Virginia Vazquez

Virginia Vazquez — Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:40:12 +0000

I like your comment alot. I was a big teenager compared to all my friends, a size 12 often called chubby. After the baby I was a Plus size at 180lbs. In my late 30′s , I was a size 2. People, especially women change, and I think I can narrow that down better by saying American women. Yesterday I bought a dress size 14, but had tried on several ranging from an 8 to 16. I bought the one I thought suited the occasion I was buying for, the time of year, then how it looked on me and the color. No matter what the number on the tag, I can always cut it out. It used to matter, but now being healthy is what counts. Tomorrow I may find a size 4 that works for me. WE have to stop letting the number dictate how we feel about ourselves. But what looks good on you, and what works in your budget. At least we have alot of choices!